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He is a pathological liar

I haven't. John will lie and deceit anyone he can.

Qq

Ok. I cant talk . I asked you not to talk about our convo.

I didn't say that at all. I said dan is working on himself. Never once mentioned alcohol counseling. John made that up

Why are you sending John an email that Dan is in alcohol counseling! I did not say that I said he goes to counseling. Please stop!

Same goes for you.

I would never.

Or we cannot talk

Please dont repeat what i say

We don't talk, so he knows nothing about my life

No

Does John know that we talk

Good

Not really

Has he said anything negative about us talking?

Yes he knows that we do chat occasionally I haven't told him a whole lot though

Does dan know we talk?

I understand

We follow our hearts and what feels right. I don't want John back as a mate, but I would like him healthy for the kids.

You 2

Thanks for listening to me.

Idk

Wonder if John noticed a difference

He still drinks he's just not drinking as much

He said he drank but I don't know if he drink a lot

Did Dan drink when they went to the Browns game?

Yes

Holy shit. We do have a good life compared to that stuff

My neighbors daughter has died of cancer and she was 21

No one should have to deal with this. But the way I look at it is we are all healthy and other people have much worse problems in life

Gosh, I hope my kids aren't dealing with this when they are older.

I think they've just had it with the whole thing in.. And are just tired of it all and don't really care anymore

What do the girls say?

It just feels like we should be together

I feel like i am crazy. But i cant let go

There are days i cannot even think about it..but i cant let go

It is extremely difficult

Wow!!! That's great. I'm happy to hear that. I know how hard that had to have been to take that first step to go to counseling.

He wants to come back home

He went on his own

Counseling

Absolutely. How is dan doing it? Is he going to counseling or on his own?

You tried

Take a step away... that's what i am seeing
He has help himself

It's so sad for them to deal with this. Brayden thought for sure John would listen to him.

There you go

He does want left alone. He's said that numerous times. He said that last night in front of the kids. He wants no one to tell him what to do. He's 51, if he wants to drink and smoke he will.

He wants to be left alone..i guess. Idk

Just keep up what you are doing. Dont let him affect you

I'm not perfect but I'm doing my best and trying to manage all this stuff happening to them, and me. He is much sicker than I thought.

You saw what Brayden wrote about you for his project. That says it all!

All you can do is be the best Mom you can and live your life . Try to ignore what john is doing and focus on you and the kids. Maybe john will notice

We all have stress

They both have very stressful jobs. The drinking is so they could stop thinking about their jobs for a while

It's not easy, I give him props for trying. At least he acknowledges it.

Dan is trying and I do see results

They don't know how to control it and manage it.

He went tailgating with his cousins and he did like 10 shots and I was very pissed off at him... it was just ridiculous. He admitted he got carried away

Trying is at least a start. John won't even try.

Dans drinking bothers me. He didnt drink at all this weekend. He is trying and thats is why i am trying

Omg

He refuses to believe it. He put a tv in the kitchen and he sits at the table watching the news drinking his beer, just like Manuel did.

Dan throws fits at times. Childish fits. It is weird. He told me he is working on it

What did he say

We don't have parent teacher conferences. He acts just like Manuel. I've told him that many times.

- it seems like a lot of this Behavior they got from Manuel

Does he go to any parent-teacher visits

Brayden was in a fetal position and John was standing over him screaming.

It's the smoking, the drinking, and his negative behavior.

Is the main concern the drinking?

Yes that's what you sent me as well

The kids confronted John last night about his drinking and his abusive behavior towards them. John chose not to listen to them and blamed me instead. Accused me of manipulating and brainwashing them. They tried to tell him it's their choice, but he didn't listen. He said he's 51 yrs old and he doesn't have to listen to anyone. They are completely distraught that their dad treated them this way, and they've asked to start counseling to help them process why John is behaving this way. Brayden thought that John would listen to him and get help. It's sad they had to witness what he did last night, but now they know just how sick he is. The kids chose not to go over his house anymore because they don't want to be around him. He screamed and yelled at them, and me. He is very sick and needs help.

Ohio law has no age limit, it goes by maturity

This morning. I'll copy and paste what I sent them.

But since the kids are under 13 I don't think the kids can make a choice if they want to see him or not

When did you text Dan

I texted Dan and Paul what happened and that the kids are choosing not to see him anymore.

Oh thats good

I can take them. We've done it before. Brayden went to counseling when he was younger.

I'm not sure but this John have to agree to consoling them as well or can you just take them

This happened at his house last night. And yes, Brayden has finally agreed to counseling. I've been asking them for months and they kept saying no. After last night Brayden said he wants to talk to someone. He is so shocked John behaved that way.

I am sorry to hear of this! Did this take place at your house? So the kids told John they didn't want him srinking and smoking? It seems like you should all go to family counseling together if he refuses to even acknowledge their opinion

We talked to John tonight. He didn't listen to the kids at all, he said he's 51 and he doesn't have to listen to anyone. If he wants to drink and smoke cigars in his own house, he will. They cried telling him they are worried about him and his behavior, he screamed at them and accused me of brainwashing him. They told him unless he changes they don't want to go over to his house anymore. He told them he's taking us to court and he'll have the court decide what to do. Brayden screamed and ran to his room, afraid the court will take the kids away from me. We finally had to leave because John was threatening and scaring them. The kids are traumatized witnessing that, they can't believe he said he doesn't care what they think and say, that he will do what he wants. They thought for sure he'd say he would change.

Its true

Heidi told me that

Pat steers them away from. Women so she can have them to herself!

No respect and no manners. But they're grown men now, at some point he has to grow up and make his own choices. He's been attached to Pat lately and it's disturbing. He has no one else, just her.

This all goes back to the way Pat raise them. No manners

Next year parents can't coach, Brayden is looking forward to that. He used to like John being the coach, not anymore.

Oh no

John is the coach

Have Brayden talk to coach. Maybe the coach can advise him that sometimes parents go overboard and have him ignore it

I think you should talk to him. But find out what the coach thinks 1st

But the kids are not expecting much and are prepared for the worst.

We are planning to soon.

Did you talk to John about it?

It's been really tough here. I'm so fucking stressed out, the kids are stressed out. I wish I could take them and run away.

Yes. That is ridiculous

Wow

It's not appropriate to talk to your children the way john talks to brayden. Like when dan called Demi fat, that's not acceptable. It fucks with the kids and will ruin the relationship

He loves football. He knows John isn't happy with him and expects him to be perfect, which gives him a complex as it is. John constantly tells brayden how he's a pussy and weak.

Maybe its a guy thing

Really loud

The guy across the street is constantly yelling at his sons about football!!

He did just start last minth didnt he? Does he like it? What did his coach say?

Did Brayden do good

No, right after the football game. Totally sober.

Was he drinking?

Brayden sobbed his eyeballs out the other night. I feel helpless most of the time, I wish I could punch John in the face.

Oh. I see

What do you mean? She was here two weekends ago. Not last weekend when John berated him.

What did Pat say aboit Brayde n?

I'll tell you everything after we talk to him, I can't risk telling you now and Dan getting this information and telling John.

I took the kids

He just said John wanted Alyssa to watch kids but they had to work

I was unloading groceries

Dan say anything about John?

Yes!!

That's pathetic

She wants Jack back

Thats good she apologized

If John would agree to get help, I'd stick by his side. So I understand what you're doing. Yes Pat was up and she apologized to me for what she did.

I heard Pat was over there last week

I don't know. I can't read the future because I'm not a genie in the bottle... I just feel like I need to work on it because that's what I feel in my heart so I feel like I need to try again 4 me

Of course. I hope Dan continues with his good side, but I know from experience they don't last long because their good side isn't their true side

Jack got married and now Jack wants to get a divorce

I feel like Dan is showing me his really good side right now. I hope that he doesn't sway back to another side

We have a plan, just don't know what to expect.

I Know Dan went to the Browns game with them last weekend

I wish there was something I could do

Kyla feels bad for Brayden and I because John's so mean to us. He ignores Kyla most of the time.

Screamed and yelled and swore at Brayden for how poorly he played

Last week he told him he played horrible football and looked like a fool. Wouldn't let him do anything with his friends until he plays better football

Does Kyla have a lot of friends?

How is he abusing Brayden?

Braden looks so cute playing football

Brayden mostly, but Kyla hates her life she says.

Because John's abusing them.

Oh my God. I'm so sorry. Are they crying because you and John are apart?

Good!! I'm the opposite, it's falling apart here. Getting worse by the day. Kids are crying daily now

We are communicating a lot and just taking one day at a time

Hi, things are going well

How's it going?

We're both doing good despite what's going on. Strong women!!

I am just me. Living my life to be happy. That is all we can do. Thank you though. You are raising great kids. Keep it up

You're a good woman Susan. Thank you for all your support.

Yes

That's great. Life is different now, we're different. We can lead by example.

Knows

I guess I dont care if Dan k ows anymore

What made you change your mind?

Ok

Fb friends?!

I get it

I don't want John to go, I'll have more fun without him. He's been abusing/manipulating Brayden. I had to teach Brayden how to be strong and stand up to him. We all want peace from him.

I don't know. I never really asked him he was thinking about going for the weekend but we went to Seattle and it was too far we already had our tickets

Why didn't Dan go on vacation with you guys?

We have our vacation in a few weeks. As of right now John isn't going.

Idk. 50/50. It is better he didnt.

Did you want him to go on vacation with you?

I don't talk to Pat.

He didn't go on vacation with us

We have been seeing each other and talking and getting along

How's it going with you and Dan?

I have not spoken to Pat for her about six months.

Yeah, and two weeks before she made that comment we spent 4 hrs together at Brayden's baseball game talking. Fuck her. She's a miserable woman, as is John. They deserve each other. Funny how John rarely talked to her and saw her and now they are best friends. Must be a lonely life if all you have is your mom.

Crazy

Bet you she doesn't lecture him about staying home with his kids.

John's going to Vegas next week, he just told me about it last week.

5-6 days a week.

How often do you have kids

I went hiking with my friend and posted pictures. She commented and said I should be with my kids, did I forget about them.

She can't comment on mine because she's blocked she can't see any of my pictures

What did she comment on.

Yeah, she's a bitch.

What? Omg

She posted a bitchy comment on my fb page about me being a bad mother. I blocked her and called her and yelled at her

Dan stays there once a week

Well now that Jack's got married she needs someone to talk to

John talks to her regularly now and took the kids to see her the other day.

Heidi said that yrs ago. She wants her sons all to herself

I've noticed. And John and her are best friends now. She's all he has.

She creates a lot of drama

I finally see her as the bitch she is.

Lol

Good for him. Get away from Pat.

Some girl named Debbie

Who did Jack marry?

All you can do is be you. One day at a time

It's really rough in my world right now. No, I didn't know Jack got married.

Did you know Jack got married!

How was fathers day

I don't think anyone can ever accept how sick John is, it'd be a reflection on them in some way too.

John knows how to show the world a good side of him.

Idk. Im not there

Dan doesnt think John drinks a lot

Yes, I could tell. I am honest, I told her last time I saw her how bad John was getting. I told her yesterday too. And I told her I'm going alone on vacation. She was supportive and told me I'll do just fine.

Yes ..it was a Grandma card

Do you think she is embarrassed of what her sons did?

That's nice. She told me you sent her one too.

I know, that's the irony of this, he's just like him.

She sent me a Mothers Day daughter card

John hates jack

Yeah I saw her yesterday at Brayden's game. I realized that John is just like Jack. She told me to just focus on me and do my own thing.

I heard Pat was there for 3 days

How was ur dAy

Happy Mother's Day to u too!

Happy Mother's Day!

Oh. I see

I don't talk to anyone, even John. I made a mistake of telling John I talk to a coach he knows. He said something to the coach and now he won't talk to me anymore. My parents live in Florida.

I don't know what he tells them. Ok?

Just between u and I. Don't really want Dan's family knowing stuff.

Oh nice. Don't you go to your parents?

Wow!! Ours was good, we went hiking on the east side. Just the kids and I, and our dog.

It was nice. Dan went to mass with us. How was yours?

How was your day? Pictures look nice.

I know, but it's the truth.

Uuuggghh..so tired of hearing that...haha

Think positive thoughts, find the great things in your life today, and less focus on Dan and what you don't have.

Thankfully Easter isn't something we ever celebrated. I'm doing ok.

Uuggh.....holidays get to me!

I know, same here. I can't tell anyone what I really feel. Well just you!

People think I am crazy to give Dan the time of day! They just don't understand

I never thought of it like that

They are in worse pain than us, I can promise you that. Our pain is different from theirs. We know how to make ourselves feel better, they don't.

But I am tired of the pain. Ot is not fair

Yes. For sure

Somehow it's helping us. We're growing into stronger women. We're stronger than them.

I wonder why we have to put up with all of this!

Happy Easter to you!!

Oh wow.... that is a lot to take

He said he was the absolute perfect man of a husband and no one wants him to be with me because I am a horrible wife and mother. Then in the same breath he tells me how he would love our family back together and he's planning to buy a house.

He was sober, I caught him off guard when I went to drop the kids off. I've been asking to talk but he continues to ignore me, so sometimes I had to just do it when the time is right for me.

When Dan drinks...he acts totally different!

When was that? Was he drinking?

That's what I told him. He kept going back and forth with me, one minute he wants to work with me, the next he says he can't do it. Finally after almost 2 hrs I left in anger and we haven't talked since.

Join the club

Getting hurt. That's John's fear.

Fear of what????

All fear

Fear.

It's like they refuse to give it ALL

Yes

Do whatever they want.

It's like they think we have osmosis

I do all that too, but I still feel unsettled about John. He told me the other day his plan is to buy a new house and let me know when it's ready for me to move in. I laughed, how absurd.

Hey. I have felt like that before but now I am feeling a lot better about my life I think I'm just concentrating on my job and it's making me happy

I feel robotic

Maybe Dan wasn't I don't know

I was just on a train and never thought about being unhappy so I guess I was happy

That's easy to do.

I guess I was Raising for kids and I was so busy did not time to think about myself

John is so far off the deep end, I really don't know how he functions.

Idk

Good stuff?

Just taking 1 day at a time....... I am realizing a lot about myself and my relationships that I did not know

How are you doing? Any progress or change?

Not at this moment in time.

Is he going to go on vacation with you

Super busy is good! It's been a little rocky in my world with John, but I'm trying to stay afloat.

Hi Kelly. How's it going? I have been super busy with work and Alyssa volleyball

No rush.

I will get those clothes to you...I have been crazy busy

Thank you. It was a rough few days. He was a great dog :(

Sorry about Zack.

Yes!!!

I have some coats and dresses from the girls. Would you want them for Kyla?

Sure is.

Yw

Life is strange...

Thank you for listening. Sitting alone in the bathroom crying and you're the one that helps me out. Thank you.

Agree!

I plan to leave him be. He can sit home alone while the kids and I live life. It'll come back to haunt him in some way.

He wants to be alone so no one will bother him about his drinking and he can do whatever he wants.

What does he want? Just to be alone? I don't get it. Maybe just leave him be. Idk

Very. I spend so much of my life crying and trying to coparent with a man who wants nothing good for me and our family.

Uugghhhhhh

It is so emotional....all of this

Thats good

Not at all. I invited my friend to go with me on vacation. I don't want him around.

Is that what you want?

No he doesn't, just wants to go on yearly vacations together.

It appears he has no desire to be a couple from what you say. I dont know.

Found this article tonight. That's exactly John's behavior towards me. He bullies me, he lies to me, he's mean to me.

IP Address: 24.252.242.230

I was. But this past week he's been brutal to me. He told me Monday he has no desire, time, and energy to talk to me and be a couple with me. He says he's doing nothing wrong and the kids are great. I'm the one that is the problem and he can't subject himself to me and be around me.

Dan is a big spender too....Pat never taught them finance

They have this control over us...uugghh

That is how old Alyssa was when Dan left the 1st time. She is affected a lot! Don't you get alimony? Just concentrate on you. I thought you were doing well for awhile.

I'm trying the best I can. I'm working my ass off literally to make ends meet. While John spends thousands on his house and buys them whatever they want.

It is too much for them to handle. Moms are supposed to be strong and in control. He's going to be 11.

How old is Brayden

It is toooo much for the kids to watch. Alyssa has seen my attacks too often. It sucks

With me. Brayden just talked me through my troubles. He gets it.

Where are the kids

I know the feeling. What is he doing now?

Im sorry!

Sitting on my bathroom floor crying. I really don't want this hard life anymore. I can't understand why I have to be connected to a mean and nasty alcoholic who just wants to hurt me?

He agreed to go on vacation in July with us, and I really don't know how that'll work. Last year was a colossal mistake.

Yes, me too. I'm angry at John.

Dan & I

I guess i mean it is both of our faults

What do you mean?

I think it takes 2

Do you think Dan blames you? John blames me and lashes out at me.

Yes. We are all adults now

Truth

Julie is a wreck too, gets off telling others what to do.

Wtheck...lol

Pressed wrong button

You missed a video chat with a contact.

And she won't talk to Pat.....yet they listen to her.

See....he listens to her too. I don't get it. She hasn't been home for Christmas in 10 yrs

Julie told John I was crazy. I don't like Julie at all.

Julie told Dan to leave so he listened. Do you talk to her

Yes. I've dumped John multiple times. All the time actually.

I didn't know you left.

Well I left John. He's never wanted me to leave. But yes, they are big babies.

They r being big babies

Yes. Dan too. But they left us.....so duh

Abandonment

John told me he has a fear of being left.

Yes....I know that about Men....so they need to understand it and move on

Why are we frickin spending our time analyzing them. We r nuts! ....

Men aren't raised to be open and forthcoming with their feelings and thoughts. They're taught to suppress them and act like they have no emotions. Showing emotions, in John's eyes, is a sign of weakness.

Pat sheltered them from Jack....yes. for sure. She cut the line of communication. Awful!

Yes. I have been working on myself too :)

Mmmmm....why do u think men have a harder time......women need support too

Everyone has problems

Men have a harder time than women. I realized my issues from my past too, been working on myself lately.

Besides...they are 50 ur old men....they need to accept it and move on. Jeez I have issues from my parents!

Jack, Pat, Manual. I don't know much about the grandparents.

Who.....Just Jack

Because that's how they were raised. Everyone played with their emotions.

They play with our emotions....why?!

Idk

Would you consider this?

https://www.facebook.com/events/1302290586526061?%3Fti=ia

IP Address: 24.252.242.230

That's good

John decided to go with us.

Alyssa has vball practice on Wed. Oh well. Have a good party

John has very little to do with her.

Instead of being with his family

Dan stays there a lot and she likes that

She does stir up trouble ....it's like she wants them to be with her !

Yes. That is correct. They are 50..jeez

It initially is Pat's fault but at some point they have to make their own choices. I can't blame my parents for my issues.

A therapist once told me Pat is a troublemaker

So basically Pat's fault?

The world is scary for them, they've never been taught to appropriately handle their emotions. Stuff I'm teaching my kids, no one ever taught them.

I know Dan always got all the attention growing up

I think the drinking is repressing his emotions. Idk what they are afraid of.

I don't. Not at this stage. Maybe when we were married and living together. Several therapists have told me that it's their soul, their true self trying to come out.

I wish I had the answer

Honestly I really don't know

Do you think it's manipulation?

They play with our emotions

John confessed something to me yesterday. It was like seeing the crack of light under the doorway. He let me into his soul for a brief second. Maybe there is hope.

Ok

Ok. I will check alyssa schedule..she may have vball practice

Thursday feb 16, after school I'm taking all the kids.

How cute. Maybe I can stop by with Alyssa

She's so excited, I'm taking her and some friends to Skyzone and dinner. They ask if John's coming and all I can say is I don't know, I told him.

How cute

Feb 15, she will be 9.

My girls just love her

When is her bday..how old?

That is sad...omg.

I told him about Kyla's birthday coming up, but he never replied and I know he won't come or participate.

John is so troubled and wants no help, so there's nothing anyone can do for him. Not even his children.

Last year

When has Alyssa babysat?

I just told him we were talking about yoga

Of course we are usually only talking about our girls

Not a word about anything else

Just about Alyssa babysitting for him

No

Does he volunteer stuff?

I dont ask him about John

Oh

I don't think so.

Yes. I've emailed him family tree stuff in recent weeks.

John doesn't go on fb does he?

That was awhile ago though

How funny. He tried to friend request me but I didn't accept.

He was to fishing for info

Dan said he knew I was talking to you ...i said how....he didn't say

Somewhat

Are you and Dan talking?

Concentrating on work and taking care of myself

What's going on with you?

Yep

All we can do is take care of ourselves and be there for our Family

That is nice

IP Address: 2600:1009:b019:7bd8:419c:a3b9:befe:603b

I'm getting there. Here's a quote that's been helping me.

they have communication isssues

Are you ok

Nope, he doesn't want to go on vacation with us, he doesn't want to get back together, he said friends and I can't mention another word about his drinking.

So you are communicating again?

It's been a struggle but I'm working through it.

I was going to write you yesterday! No, nothing changed on my end for messenger.

I had some messenger issues. Did yours change formats?

Hi Kelly. How's it going

I don't know, he just started canceling every time John would invite him. If I had a heart to heart with Paul, he'd understand where I'm coming from. He's seen John mean to me while drunk.

they went to Browns game together

why did he stop

Paul stopped coming over. They only see each other at their once a year game and then the holiday party.

I was crazy busy with 4 little girls back then

I had No idea Paul goes there. recently? sad

Everyone ran from me when I told them back in 2009.

Paul does. He's been there before when John was too shitfaced to be a parent. No one wants to interfere, John's too much of a mean asshole.

is Tom aware of this day drinking? or Paul?

That's what they tell me. They normally text and FaceTime me, while he's off doing his own thing.

that's weird if the kids are there ....he doesn't spend time with them?

He's admitted he knows he has issues with alcohol, but doesn't want to stop. He's content with his lonely life. The kids told me he never hangs out with them on the weekends. He does his own thing.

I dont know his drinking issues except what u tell me. it sounds like he needs help with them though

it takes 2 to work at it....

I know. they are adults and need to deal with issues

I'm slowly getting over John. I deserve much better than what he has ever given me. He will never find anyone as good as me, and I told him that. He said he wants me back and loves me but he won't stop drinking.

Why who doesn't have these issues?

But then I look at time and I'm wondering why he doesn't have these issues

I think a lot of these issues are because they were not with a steady father

road rage

Kids told me that John got into a fight with another driver and chased him around town for a while until the guy went home. The kids were scared and screaming at him.

I can see that

John thinks because they were born in his house that should be home, but they consider my house home more than his.

They both call my house home over John's.

It sounds like it because maybe Brayden calling that his home over John home

Omg I can't believe you said that!! Kyla said that too.

maybe he was jealous of the room?

Here's an example of how much John is an asshole. We remodeled Brayden's bedroom at my house. He picked out the color he wanted and we painted and hung shelves, and made it his own little man cave. He's extremely excited about it and wanted to show John. John tells him that the walls are too dark and it doesn't look good. Then says to me that I should've known better than to paint his room too dark. Brayden said he was hurt and yelled at John in his head for being so mean. Brayden was very excited about it and John just crushed him.

how sad

That's good to hear though. I'm always stressed out on those days. John drives the kids home after drinking all day.

She messaged me asking about yoga helping her, she said she's been sick for a few months.

Janette is sick

Why?!

The holiday party was cancelled

He hates Jack and Manuel, and realizes he like both of them, which makes him hate them more. He has severe self esteem issues, it's creating havoc in him. If I stop fighting for him, and potentially us, no one will ever help him.

I thought he hated Manuel

John is exactly like Manuel. We talked about that in July on our family vacation. John said then he'd work on things. By the time we got home he was back to his normal asshole self.

Remember Manuel got into that downward spiral

It sounds like he needs to go to a meeting to get help

He's admitted many times he has trouble with alcohol, but can't stop.

John drinks every day, starts around 11-1130. Depending on when he eats lunch. He's started working from home so he can drink more.

I Know Dan will go on binges where he won't drink and he'll say I'm not going to drink and then he'll just drink on the weekend

Does he drink every day?

About his drinking yes.

Did you guys fight a lot?

They do think it's normal. That's the sad part. John said he wants someone who will fuck him when he wants and who will let him drink and smoke and do his thing. I said no way.

They feel that it's normal to have a broken family

It's funny because he is so about family and his is broken!

I dont know what John is looking for

so true!!!

I keep reading a quote that says the right people will want you in their lives.

I know the feeling...lol

They hate John. All my friends hate John. No one wants me with him.

That only I can make the decision. What does your Mom say?

What does she say?

Believe me...I consult my Mom a lot for answers and only I can make the decision

I dont know. Only you know. They say when you know....it will come to you.

I have and will. He doesn't want me. He wants to be alone with his alcohol.

Only you can make that decision

I realize I have to be done. I've been hanging on for nothing.

Happy New Year to you as well

Happy new year Susan. Hope 2017 is a better year for us both.

You don't think he's addicted to alcohol? He passed it from drinking one day at John's. the kids told me and I confronted John about it. He laughed.

dan doesn't have an addiction that I know of

They have a fb group. I've learned a lot from there too.

Oh. I never went to a meeting

Very. Al-anon teaches you never lose hope, but it's hard.

yea. that is sad

I don't have a choice. I tell him all the time alcohol wins over our family.

I have ever friends in that group

well if John doesn't care ...what does it matter

I've studied addiction for 10 yrs now. I'm also in Al-anon.

sounds like u need to move on....idk

idk much about the topic

I know. Only a small percentage of high functioning addicts recover.

or of it can be

not sure how that is fixed

He's a full blown addict. Of course it bothered me!!

doesn't that bother u?

wow. sounds like he is an addict.

He watches it alone. When we first started dating he couldn't have sex without watching it.

A counselor we went to told him he's an alcoholic and porn addict. He went home and wrote up a letter threatening to get the guys license taken away for saying that.

so he just watches porn alone?

I busted him about the porn on a joint credit card, he opened a private account.

that is just wrong

you need to move on!

wtheck

Ours too. He spent so much money on alcohol, cigars, and porn.

sorry wrong button

You missed a video chat with a contact.

that was one 9f our problems

dan is bad with it too

I dont get it....he is a finance major!

Pat didn't teach them much.

He's the worst with money.

Pat didn't teach them about finance...but John is a finance major

I know

John has money but he's also in debt.

I know what u mean though.

well as u see money isn't everything

Yes. He doesn't make a lot of money. And though that's superficial, I'm not sure about it.

is he divorced

I am playing words with friends with her.... lol

Well there are things I'm not sure about. And he knows my history with John and that I'm not over him.

if that guy treats u good
..I would go 4 it

Alyssa is playing me in scrabble right now.

Being alone is the worst for me. Why I broke down Friday, the kids went back to John's after I had them for 4 days. It's rough when they're over there.

the girls Rover there now and I am alone ...it sucks

I dont really want to date .. but I don't wanna be alone

well i guess u have to try

My heart isn't in it.

4 u and the new guy

it's probably what I need to do

no. I hope it works 0ut for 4 and the newbie

Anything I can do to help?

no

Feeling any better? I caught a glimpse of Dan. The guy I am talking to was here when John and Dan dropped the kids off. I told John and offered to introduce them. The kids said Dan wanted to know who was over.

Oh no!!! I had mine Friday. I know how you're feeling.

I already had a breakdown 😞

Let me know, I'm working today.

I am recording it

I am sure they will be on TV today!

Good to hear!!!! I had a good night too. Enjoy your day today! Let's move forward and take care of ourselves and our kids.

Church rejuvenates me

I had a great Christmas Eve with the girls😃🌲

Merry Christmas to you ! I appreciate you listening

Merry Christmas Susan! Thank you for being there for me!!

When will karma get them?

and hiv

A vagina with no baggage.

I just don't get it. what do they want....someone to serve them with no emotion? doesn't exist

John told me I'm desperate and needy and he doesn't want drama so he'd rather be alone. So maybe I should just give up on him.

my head hurts from all this

John doesn't care, Dan doesn't care. So why should we?

I guess i have to move on

no! it sucks

So should we be ok with it too?

I guess the girls are ok with it and they r gonna go over there after the game

I was supposed to have the kids but now they're going to the game. Brayden is so excited so that makes me feel a little better, but still John's going to be drinking and acting like an asshole around Dan.

now he is going to the game to pick up girls!

he was supposed to have the girls over for dinner

😤

Oh I know. My stomach dropped when you told me he was going. Neither one of them will change if they have each other.

now that he is going to the cavs game sitting courtside.....he is probably on a high

uugghh

That was my day yesterday!!! I feel a little better today, but holidays are hard for sure.

the girls hate seeing my cry so I can't

I dont think i can get through it

ok. today is the absolute worst day

Yes, they love him.

did he meet your kids

I know. I know. it sucks

I work with him. I don't know what I want to be honest. I want love and respect, and he does that for me. But I want it from John.

I think he is having a midlife crisis

I dont even know why Dan left

do u like being with him....maybe just try?

where did u meet this guy

Instead they spend their time together, drinking and talking about vaginas.

I don't get it. Why wouldn't John and Dan want to be with us and be the men we need them to be?

They're with John. I was having a hard day before we started talking.

that is why it cancelled my date....i cant handle it

where r the kids

I didnt know u were with someone

I'm sorry if I upset u

I have a man downstairs who adores me and I'm upstairs crying and about to shower. I think I might be messed up for life.

yw. thx u

Good night Susan, thanks for always listening to me.

ttyl

Noone understands

u know

Why??

I turned down a date tonight

I told him I'm writing you. He just doesn't know about what.

oh...sorry

I'm with the guy now. And messaging you.

what r u doin tonignt

😞

what is wrong with us............ we just want our family!

I know it sucks ...it's like u dont even wanna be there

maybe give the newbie a chance?

Usually not!

but they are probably not happy...lol

I know!

I have a hard time around the holidays. I can't even look on fb when everyone is happy and married.

my dad is awesome. he has always been there with our family

what is wrong with them

and christmas

I just got back from a 3 day trip and everyone was talking about their spouses

wtf

That's how I feel now too.

😭

Me too.

I am tired of being alone

She told me over the summer how he never calls or comes around, but he sends her money.

I don't. John doesn't talk to Pat, he sees her twice a year, and calls her maybe once a month.

do u talk to Heidi

what do u think of that

this is FUCKIN nuts. u r right

she told me that I need to seek help the last time Dan left

it's like she thinks we deserve this because it happened to her

her sons

What boys??

Heidi told me she wants all her boys to herself!

only fb stuff.

she never calls

I limited her access on fb because she kept commenting on my pics. it was bothering me

They don't deserve us, this is fucking nuts that we went men who are assholes and don't deserve us.

I thought you said Dan wants to be with you?

No. I posted something the other day about struggling with Brayden and his mood swings. She made some comment that I wanted to blast her and say she didn't do a good job with her 5 kids.

I am making Pat's 7 layer salad for dinner tomorrow. she never calls me. does she call u?

I'm here

r u there

now I have to plan a wedding that he will be at!!!

it stinks but I guess it's what he wants

I have to move on

I want to see Dan but I guess he doesn't wanna see me

I wish I knew

there is a reason

idk Kelly....why is this happening

well that was hearsay....

Of course. You told me John wanted women to fuck, haven't stopped thinking of that since.

uuggjh...do u think that at all?

now they r going to the game on Christmas and women will probably be talking to them

is John texting u at all?

don't tell him we r chatting

I'm going to have to. Tough love

I told u to ignore him

you are a smart beautiful woman

I know he is. But what can I do?

but why

maybe John is suppressing his feelings

I just don't get it

Great

it doesn't go away I heard but we have to ignore it I guess!!!

I know the feeling!!!! aahhhh

We haven't lived together for over 7 years. But we still did things together and took trips. John doesn't deserve me either, but I can't seem to get over him and move on. I've been seeing this guy for over a month and he absolutely adores me. And all I can do is wonder if John would ever want me again.

life is short and he is wasting precious time

I feel like he doesn't deserve me

idk the answer

how long have u been apart

I ask because I don't know if I can ever get over John.

r u talking to him

why do u ask

Do you think you can move on and not be with Dan?

He thinks he's invincible.

Doesn't matter. He drove many times drunk after Paul's holiday parties.

but he will have the kids

Probably John. John drives after drinking all the time.

who will drive

Ugh. There's no hope for them.

yes

Is Dan going?

I don't have a choice. He doesn't want me around.

are you ok with that? my kids said he asked Dan to go

Until I'm done working. He's taking them to a Cavs game on Christmas Day.

so John has kids on Christmas?

I told him that I won't give up because everyone did and I can't live with myself if I give up too.

Because you have feelings!

Why do I even bother?

Narcissist

Yep!

I did lots of research over the weekend about dealing with addicts. They manipulate and blame. And are just plain mean.

They play games

I don't talk to him often, felt the need to reach out this weekend.

Sorry I was out to lunch

I thought you weren't talking to him

I asked him to get help and work on getting his family back.

What did u say

John told me to leave him alone, he only wants to communicate about kids only.

Westlake village, by St. John hospital.

Where do u work on Christmas

Our xmas is Wednesday because I have to work.

So do you have the kids for christmas

His best friends brother.

Which friend died . How awful

Well he's never going to forget you.. You've been part of his life for many years

Pictures of me.

I'm just leaving my meeting

Pics of what

I learned tonight that John has all my pictures saved onto his phone. Any picture I send him he keeps. Kyla told me and he tried to say he doesn't know how to get rid of them.

I have to go to my meeting now

Their thought process is stunted and warped. Selfish decisions. They'll burn out sooner or later. I remember when John's friend died of alcohol poisoning, bled to death. I thought that'd change him, nope. Then the kids and I left, that didn't change him, then Manuel dies, that didn't change him. What will?

I dont know why they think the way they do

For our Summer vacation this year...Dan called Danielle crying the day we left

I'm planning a beach trip with just kids and I for 2017. We've done yearly beach trips for 4 yrs.

He said he doesn't want some woman telling him he can't drink.

Uugghhhh 😬

Yeah, alcohol wins.

That u were gonna move last yr..idk

You heard about what house?

My friends husband is making her move to Hawaii without a job!!!

These guys are crazy

I heard about the Columbia station house

I am available during the day..but out of town next week for regional meeting

Omg. I just don't get it!

Last year I got an ornament made of all 4 of us, we talked about moving to a new house. Kids knew and talked about it.

We didn't spend 2012 together. But we were communicating

What! I had no idea.

This is our first year we won't be together for the holidays. Doesn't faze John but it's killing the kids and I. Are you ever available during the day?

R u ok?

I have my last one next week

Hi Kelly...i am doing well ..I have 3 business trips in Dec so I have even VERY occupied. Keeps my mind off stuff! This season can be traumatic. How r u?

Just checking in, how are you doing?

I do believe in karma too.

Thought of you and I do believe in Karma. Hope u get something good out of it xx

This is for u x Read till the end! I sent an angel to watch over you last night, but it came back and asked "why?" The angel said, "angels don't watch over angels!" twenty angels are in your world. Ten are sleeping, nine of them are playing and one is reading this message. The universe has seen you struggling with some things and says it over. a blessing is coming your way. If you believe in Karma send this message to 14 friends including me, if I don't get it back I guess I'm not one of them. As soon as you get 5 replies, someone you love will quietly surprise you... Not joking. Pass this message on. Please don't ignore it. you are being tested and Karma is going to fix two big things tonight in your favor. If you believe in Karma drop everything and pass it on TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. DON'T BREAK THIS. SEND THIS TO 14 FRIENDS IN 10 MINUTES IT'S NOT THAT HARD. WHOEVER SENT THIS TO YOU MUST CARE ABOUT YOU

Just hold your finger on it n it should say forward

I bought my house and moved on. But emotionally still attached.

We seriously need to move on...omg

She is done

Bought her own house

I don't know Bobbie

Bobbie moved

Bobbie is strong

Pat is weak

No ur not

Hahahaha

But look at what Bobbi and Pat are doing. Taking him back!! I've told John he's Jack and I'm Pat several times.

I look up to Bobbie

I would love to get together. Jack is the example to Dan and John and they don't see it.

Ass

Look what Jack did to Bobbie

Don't let John bring u down

Embrace it

Life is strange

We can go drink wine sometime if u want

Crazy...lol

That's why I reached out to you Monday. Kyla cried so hard and it got me down. You're the only one who understands the spot I'm in. It's so crazy to me that after all these years, we've been able to bond like this.

Good for u👏👏👏👏

I know. That's why I'm changing my life now. Saying no to thanksgiving was a huge step for me. We've spent it together every year, even all these years we've been divorced. He wanted me to go over.

Kelly...u deserve better!

And John will use his money and charm to impress her. He found some black chick in Georgia to fuck for a few years. Caught him texting her a few years ago while we were on a family vacation.

She will just be after money!

Him not me.

John too. A fuck friend with no drama. So he can sit in his basement alone and drink and no one tells me what to do.

So gay

Dan probably thinks he can get some 30 yr old and that will make him happy

Yep. Destroying everything in their path to run away.

They run away instead of facing

Wish they'd realize they have the power to make their life better.

Again...lack of father figure

Omg.. that's crazy

It's too hard for him to tell me something nice. I don't know why. It took me losing my hair for him to tell me he loves me.

I wanna punch him

Uugghhb

I know he does. He won't ever tell me that but he tells others that.

This was last year

Why does dan tell you this stuff?

John told dan he likes ur body...fyi

Thus...our problem.....uugghhh

True

Like good men.

Good sex is hard to find.

Sex is missed though!!

I just hang with my friends and have a blast

But I do agree other guys r mostly dicks

I'm in the same boat. Some days I feel strong and independent and other days I just wish it could be different.

Idk what I want. Only time will tell

Same

I get it now! I'm not friends with either of them. In fact I blocked both, I knew they were stalking my page.

No!

That is why I can't be fb friends

Ok. We can't let them know

I told my best friend, that's all.

No!

Have you told Dan?

I don't talk to John about anything.

It hurts...i know

Great....keep doing it!!

How do i know u won't tell John we r talking

I've been unavailable for the past several months. I turned down going over for thanksgiving. Toughest decision I've had to make. Made the kids sad, so very sad. But I can't put myself in that position for John to take advantage of me.

He needs to treasure u

He can't have a booty call!

What he can't have

Well then u need to make urself unavailable to john....he needs to see hat he can't have

I know women too. Looking for good men. It's not easy. I've dated a lot over the years, I'd rather be single than deal with the nonsense I find. Plus I don't feel I'm completely over John and I still have the urge to try and help him. Despite what everyone tells me to do.

Divorced and looking for a nice woman

What do you mean?

I am finding there r many...many men out there in ur situation

Next year. August.

You are still young. R u 40 yet

18.

How many years

It does. I have days I'm hopeful and days I feel like there will never be hope. I feel like I've spent so much of my life already on John.

It does take two to make it togethet

I agree.

It's so sad to me that families have to suffer because of the actions of one person.

Idk

I have hope for them, I really do. It just may take a while and a lot of strength on our parts.

I'm at Verizon seeing if I can get an iphone.

Yes he always says stuff on fat ....uugghn

I have an appt now. Just on my mind.

No, that's when he was over John's when I came to pick kids up.

He didn't have a girlfriend in 2014

Plus the drinking enhances it

All men do!

They like to act like children

Dan plays into in....he knows it's wrong....he just plays along

And his Mom for 2 yrs

When they are together they are ruthless. Just mean men.

Once he didn't talk to his friend for 4 urs

He talks crap about everyone when he is mad

Has he apologized?

I guess it really does that matter

That's good. It was 2014.

That was 2012

Because I knew all that stuff. We already talked about all of this is a therapy

He had a girlfriend then.

2010

When did he live with John?

Well because we were then2

You're right. 2014

Are you sure Dan said that stuff summer of 2015? Because we were together then things were going good

Haha . Agree

Good. I appreciate our new friendship. Who would've thought.

Yes :)

Work going well?

Thx. Hope to make one. I am traveling a lot in Dec

Of course you don't have to pay. Get one of the girls to come with you!

Here's a copy of the December schedule

IP Address: 24.252.242.230

As am I. I'm always getting new books to read.

I am no where near perfect. I have my flaws....believe me. I am working on them ;)

Ok. Anytime.

You too Susan. Thank you for today, I needed it.

Oh well. Nice talking. Have a great week. BE strong!

Dan was 60 lbs overweight in 2013. I didn't care

See. That is the problem with them. Love is not looks ONLY.

I have. He's been heavy and I've still stayed by his side.

Would you still like John if he gained 50 lbs?

Olmsted falls. On cook rd.

I know i need to get in shape but I have been so stressed and busy taking care of my girls and working. Time for me!

Where are they

730-830 pm.

Monday and Thursday are the beginner classes. I don't teach them though.

Yes. I have to been b4 but it has been while

I'd get back with John if he took care of himself and his issues.

I have all sorts of classes. You need beginners right?

John has called me a bad mom too. Told me I'm worthless and they don't need me.

Love prevails all

I am not perfect

When is your yoga class? I would like to attend it and where is it

Dan saus a lot of stuff

Lot of stuff. That's the problem that he has. He just says things and off the car and then he turned around and he can take them back.. That is part of his problem

I don't believe Dan said I was a bad mother. That's just insane because I'm not a bad mother

I know you don't really believe in God but I do.. As I remember you don't but I'm not sure about that.. I know John doesn't

A lot of these issues are because of the way he was raised.. I really don't know the answer.. But God will guide me

We have been together 28 years FYI

Believe me. I am a smart woman.. And this is all going to get worked out.. But eight months is not a long time after 25 years of marriage

Idk what the answer is.. Believe me once I know the answer....I will react but I've always been told if you don't know....wait

I really wish you'd dump Dan's ass. They don't deserve us.

I don't know. Usually the kids will tell me when he comes over.

When does he hang out with John?

I am a very smart girl and so are you. We both have a lot to offer

I don't know Kelly. I don't have the answers .all I can do is live my life protect my girls and and try to be happy

He did not go over John's on Thanksgiving

So how will he change if he continues to hang out with John and act like assholes?

But he texts me

He plays the good old boys club with John

Becuz he wants our family life and he is embarrassed by his actions

He's living a double life. He's one man to John and another one to you. He doesn't want John to know this side of him.

John and I once had a good thing too. But it's been more bad years than good.

He didn't want that girl...if he did...why didn't he divorce me?

Idk what I want anymore

The affair was him lashing out over his internal issues

U dont see what we really have b4 the affair

After all this, why do you want him?

It is how u feel

I dont care if Dan gains 50 lbs
..I told him that ...looks don't matter to me

Idk....i just don't get it